Posts by Disillusioned JW

31

If only someone had kicked my a$$.. (This is post is not for theists)

by HowTheBibleWasCreated in

i think back on the 30+ years of bs as well as my fading almost a decade and even now being low key in person to hopefully save my nieces from the wt.

i'm a wreck in some ways.

i'm other days i'm stable however when it comes to theism i depart quickly and with anger!

Disillusioned JW

ShotWhileTryingToEscape, I don't favor anyone (except maybe in dire situations, like those in a cult that will eventually order them to commit suicide) being "forced fed"; instead I am in favor of information and ideas being tactfully offered to people. Yes I had doubts years before I stopped believing in the religion. At around the age 12 I stopped believing that prayer works in post-biblical times (and I wasn't even certain if it worked in biblical times) and after that I never believed in prayer again as something that works in the modern world. I was baptized at a teenage age. When I gave prayers in the congregation from the platform, even as an MS, and especially during my last 5 years as a MS, I wondered what is the point of me giving these prayers. I gave them because it was a duty assigned to me.

The very hour after I got baptized I wondered if I made a mistake in getting baptized. That is because prior to getting baptized I heard someone in the congregation say that one will remember their baptism day all of their life as a special happy day, but I noticed that my baptism was anticlimatic. I didn't feel any different emotionally from being baptized than prior to baptism (probably largely because I had already been living as a JW since infancy) and I thus wondered why I didn't get an emotional experience. For awhile prior to getting baptized I wondered if evolution was true and for years after baptism (and off and on after that) I wondered if evolution was true. The very year I got baptized (months before getting baptized) I obtained issues of a science magazine that had information about human evolution (including famous recent hominid fossils which had been found) and of evidence for abiogenesis and the evolution of non-humans. I kept those articles for several years - longer than nearly all of my other science magazine articles up to that time. I kept them longer because I considered them the most interesting and the most important of the ones I had purchased.

I later got rid of them only because I thought I didn't need them, since the library has them and I wanted to reduce the clutter in my home. A few years after I became an atheist I bought copies (after very much searching) of the science magazines I had disposed of, and for the copies I couldn't buy affordably, I made photocopies (from the library) of the articles I liked.

12

I bought these two books out garage saleing

by mickbobcat in

the truth that leads to eternal life at a church rummage sale.

1968 printing and a 74 printing of god's eternal purpose now triumphing for mens good.

i know the truth book has some things in it that are a bit damning.

Disillusioned JW

Balaamsass2, have you been successful in getting JWs to doubt their religion by showing them things in the "Life Everlasting in the Freedom of the Sons of God " book and other old WT books?

31

If only someone had kicked my a$$.. (This is post is not for theists)

by HowTheBibleWasCreated in

i think back on the 30+ years of bs as well as my fading almost a decade and even now being low key in person to hopefully save my nieces from the wt.

i'm a wreck in some ways.

i'm other days i'm stable however when it comes to theism i depart quickly and with anger!

Disillusioned JW

See https://www.blueletterbible.org/study/cults/exposejw/jw_chap3.cfm which gives a testimony of how a baptist became a JW and later how an ex-JW convinced the JW to resign as a JW (however the person did not stop believing in the Bible or Christianity). It is indeed possible to help to some JWs to see the truth.

31

If only someone had kicked my a$$.. (This is post is not for theists)

by HowTheBibleWasCreated in

i think back on the 30+ years of bs as well as my fading almost a decade and even now being low key in person to hopefully save my nieces from the wt.

i'm a wreck in some ways.

i'm other days i'm stable however when it comes to theism i depart quickly and with anger!

Disillusioned JW

At a JW assembly (or convention) sometime between 1995 and 2005, there were so-called apostates protesting peacefully outside of the convention building (while the convention was in intermission, or maybe before the day's session started, or maybe after it ended). They had signs that listed dates pertaining to what the WT predicted would happen on those various dates, or of which they had said supposedly did happen). The dates included the following: 1874, 1878, 1914, 1925, 1975, and others. One sign (or a person speaking through a megaphone) urged JWs to read the April 1, 1972 Watchtower article called "They Shall Know a Prophet is Among Them" in which the organization called JWs a prophet. [That claim is important because if the WT claimed that JWs were prophets, while the WT was making false predictions (which the JWs had spread) that they claim they learned in some way from Jehovah God, then that would be proof that the WT is a false prophet. Most JWs are certain that the WT never claimed to be a prophet.] The ex-JWs from a distance told the JWs they don't need to talk to them (where other JWs could see them and thus get them in trouble for talking to 'apostates'), but instead that after they get home they can secretly look up the claims for themselves in the WT's literature, with the aid of the internet. I already knew that some of the dates pertained to failed predictions. Since I had doubts about the religion (even though I was probably still a MS at the time), I did secretly look up the claim about the WT saying the JWs were in some sense a prophet. I found out it was true (though the article by the Society had the word "prophet" in quote marks, perhaps to imply "like a prophet") and the failed predictions associated with various dates, and discovery of them made an impact on me! It made a difference. The so-called apostates were telling the truth - no lies (or even misleading statements/context) at all in what they said in their public protest and no lies (or even misleading statements/context) at all in what various ones had posted online (when quoting the WT literature, and in many cases they included images of the pages of the WT literature from which the quotes came from)! All of that made a big difference for me. I was stunned. Later in life, after I had stopped attending JW meetings (though I still attended the Memorial for several years until I became an independent Christian, which was before I became an atheist) I purchased books (mostly at a thrift store, but some through eBay) by Russell and Rutherford and I saw the dates in them and the failed predictions that were made about them. Such confirmed that the images I found online at 'apostate' sites were authentic copies of the WT publication's pages.

36

What useful piece of literature have the JW produced?

by HowTheBibleWasCreated in

seeing on another post here about former jws throwing away literature.

i am curious as to the various opinions on there value.. for me i have been inactive for 3 years almost 4. i still have alot of books and of course all their bibles ever produced (except a few from the 1800s.).

in my opinion i think there are four books the jws produced that are useful:.

Disillusioned JW

Are any of the WT books very effective in helping to us to get some JWs to see problems with some of the WT's claims? If so, do we have to be PIMO (instead of out of the religion) in order to get JW's to read them? If so, which books are the best for that purpose? I don't attend JW meetings and thus I have no in-person access to the JWs who might be open to questioning the religion.

31

If only someone had kicked my a$$.. (This is post is not for theists)

by HowTheBibleWasCreated in

i think back on the 30+ years of bs as well as my fading almost a decade and even now being low key in person to hopefully save my nieces from the wt.

i'm a wreck in some ways.

i'm other days i'm stable however when it comes to theism i depart quickly and with anger!

Disillusioned JW

At times in my life, tactful direct argumentation with clear evidence from books would have helped me discover the truth much sooner than I did, especially if it were evidence for evolution and of problems with the Bible. That is because at various times in my life as a teenage unbaptized publisher, as a baptized JW in high school and college, and even as a MS, I sometimes wondered if evolution was true and if the JW religion, and even parts of the Bible, were false - but no one had personally presented clear evidence to me during those times.

Eventually the doubts caused me to become inactive (including ceasing meeting attendance of the JW religion) and focusing my attention on critically examining the JW religion and studying the Bible independently (using multiple translations and using Hebrew-Greek Interlinears and 'Christendom's' Bible commentaries and Bible Dictionaries and online articles). Later I had discussions on an online site with a local ex-Christian who was an atheist trying to convert people to atheism. When he pointed out some clear conflicts with the geologic record (which I had not known of) versus the Genesis creation accounts and flood accounts, and after a local Seventh-day Adventist on the same online site said the creative days in Genesis must have been meant to be understood as literal solar days (and stating reasons for the view), I immediately stopped believing the supernatural claims of the Bible (which was after I had already found serious contradictions in the Bible and other problems in the Bible) - including belief in Jehovah/Yahweh God, Jesus Christ, Satan the Devil, etc. A year later I became an outright positive/strong atheist - not merely a non-theist (who wondered if a deistic god or a pantheistic conscious god might exist). I became such an atheist after reading a comment by Steven Hawking in the news, saying science can now explain how the Big Bang and the universe started (or at least could have started) - without recourse to belief in any kind of god - even a deistic god.

7

Does anybody have a print copy of the 15-Feb-2003 Watchtower?

by DanTheMan in

the reason i ask is because on the wt library (2005) the second of the two study articles from that mag has a blurb at the end that i found rather bizarre: .

[footnote].

published by jehovahs witnesses but now out of print.

Disillusioned JW

a

I have a revision to my prior post. Though older copies of the 1984 NWT say "International Bible Students Association" I notice that a copy which says "2006 Printing" (which made some changes to the original text of the 1984 edition) does not. I am no longer certain that the JW religion still uses an organization with the name of "International Bible Students Association", but I think it does. That association was, at one time at least, based in London, UK. See https://avoidjw.org/finances/ibsa/ for information about the International Bible Students Association.

https://www.friendsofjehovahswitnesses.com/2013/04/10/the-original-international-bible-students-association-still-alive-and-well/ gives a different (and shocking to me) view of the identity of the "International Bible Students Association than what I thought was the case.

27

Has the Kingdom Interlinear Translation been pulled off the shelves

by homme perdu in

i was searching for it at the hall's library and i didnt find a copy.

i also asked the literature department for a copy and they said they werent familiar with the bible.

what is going on?

Disillusioned JW

By the way, in the history stated in the "2004 Edition" of the The Emphatic Diaglott, I think it said that the WT had published the Diaglott for many years. I think it might even have said that the WT transferred the printing plates of the Diaglott to those who are now the publishers of the "2004 Edition", but I am not certain of that.

7

Does anybody have a print copy of the 15-Feb-2003 Watchtower?

by DanTheMan in

the reason i ask is because on the wt library (2005) the second of the two study articles from that mag has a blurb at the end that i found rather bizarre: .

[footnote].

published by jehovahs witnesses but now out of print.

Disillusioned JW

Though nearly all of the Bible Student organizations are separate from from the modern Jehovah's Witnesses religion, one of them is not separate. One is a legal entity that is a part of the Jehovah's Witnesses' operations and affiliated with both the Watch Tower and the Watchtower. It existed in some form in Br. Russell's time though it might have had a name change (see the Proclaimers book) - it is the International Bible Students Association (which no longer publishes Russell's nor Rutherford's books). Note that some publications of the WT (such as the 1984 NWT, 1985 edition of the Kingdom Interlinear, the 1989 revised Reasoning book, the 1980 Happiness book, and the 1985 Creator book [Life -- How did it get here?]) are copyrighted by BOTH the "Watch Tower" and the "International Bible Students Association" and/or JOINTLY published by the "Watchtower" and the "International Bible Students Association".

46

Thinking about disassociating yourself - STOP!...at least for a moment

by rory-ks in

(this recent forum post about a letter of disassociation encouraged me to post this new topic.

it's been sitting in my drafts folder for a little while, but now is as good a time as any.).

my suggestion would be, try not to go down the route of disassociation.

Disillusioned JW

What about someone who became a JW, but later stopped believing in it and who wants the following: 1) to create a website that exposes the JW religion or the Bible as false, or to write a book on such; 2) to be known by the general public as an author who officially quit the JW religion (maybe even as one who became an ex-Christian [even an anti-Christ of a sort], or even an atheist) rather than one who was expelled from the religion; 3) someone who wants to have written proof (possibly to the extent of having the DA letter notarized) that he/she/neuter quit the religion and disavows its false teachings, to strengthen his/her/neuter's credentials/reputation as a critic of the religion (or even of religion of general) and to deny false possible charges by the WT of immorality.

Having the letter, months or even years, before one starts a career as an ex-JW and ex-Christian author and public speaker of atheism (and as a potential expert or authority on such who might receive televised interviews), would give the person a degree of power over the WT and its governing body. The ex-JW could post the letter publicly on the internet and/or in his/her/neuter's book as documentation.